Okay, so let's talk about the ending (or any other parts which you find interesting). What are your thoughts?
I have a couple theories that seem valid to me, but of course I wasn't writing down every detail of the movie and I've only seen it once, so perhaps I'm provably wrong.
Well, to start, one thing at the end gets me, which is that all the "team" is seen in the airport, not all of whom look like they are heading home. The one guy is working, pushing a cart, it looks like, as though he's an employee of the airport.
So, maybe Cobb is just a businessman who dreams a lot. He is a frequent flyer and so he sees the "team members" a lot and this is why they're in his dream. One scene that is real is when he's in the airport coming home; another is the people who all purposely do 40 hours of lucid dreaming a day. Cobb is one of those; while he's out on business he does this. The inceptions, the extractions, all the "dream" science fiction is all just a part of Cobb's dreams, so effectively he lives in the same universe with the same possibilities as we do, i.e. dream sharing is something he imagined.
Cobb has guilt over being a frequent traveler businessman and not seeing his family much, and his guilt attacks him. He dreams Mal's death, dreams it was his fault. Or maybe none of his family except his father even exist, and he is just woefully/wishfully dreaming about a family and how he would ruin them if he had one and it's his subconsciousness attacking him and telling him he doesn't deserve a family. I guess in this scenario even the ending scene where he sees his kids couldn't be real.
In another possibility... the top is Mal's totem, but Cobb had started dreaming with her before she even died. What was his totem that convinced him to go find her totem? In other words, what kept him grounded in reality when they were both in limbo, if her totem was locked away? Was she his totem? The top is all you ever see him using but you'd think he would've fashioned one of his own.
A theory I've read online is that Saito was incepting on Cobb. Cobb is part of Saito's team in reality but his skill is diminished by his subconcious guilt over Mal and so most of the action is Saito taking Cobb down into dreams so that he can eliminate Mal.
Okay, that may be confusing, but what do you guys think?
I think that is an over thought explanation. You know my theories, and I would have a hard time writing them all down here. To over simplify. I think he was awake at the end.
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"...you should try reading my posts being getting all emo." --FoxMetal
I like the last explanation you give, but like the first, there just isn't enough evidence to support it. It's basically seems like a fun 'what if' and 'could be'
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"...you should try reading my posts being getting all emo." --FoxMetal
I think this movie, deliberately or not, makes it really easy to come up with all kinds of possible secrets and conspiracy theories and mindscrews that really do not need to be there; to come up with all kinds of answers to questions that the movie doesn't ask. Yes, it's possible someone is incepting on Leo. It's also possible that Star Trek: Deep Space Nine takes place entirely in a holodeck or that Donkey from Shrek is a secret agent for Guilder.
I can tell you this: it's highly unlikely that Cobb was just dreaming in a world like ours, because real dreams do not behave like the ones in Inception. They happen in real time -- they're not two hours long -- and they're not even close to this coherent.
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Shake your windows and rattle your walls.
The whole movie is Cobb's dream. We never see reality. The first time we see what is made out to be reality, when they're on the train in Japan, is still his dream. Notice there's no introduction to this seen, it just starts abruptly in the middle, like dreams. Also, notice how when he's supposedly awake at the end, in the airport, everyone is looking at him?
Alternative: the entire movie is the audience's dream.
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Seth: What are you making?
Evan: I'm just drilling holes. Last two weeks, **** it.
Oh, the whole "how did we get here" thing is awesome, though. This is a really good movie for screwing around with conventions.
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Shake your windows and rattle your walls.
DIM: The point for the topic is speculation. I know we probably can't be conclusive here.
Jordan: So do you think Mal was right and she escaped and went to the highest level, which would be actual reality?
DIM: The point for the topic is speculation. I know we probably can't be conclusive here.
I just don't think the speculation is worth very much if you can't back it up with some evidence from the film. Otherwise I can sit here all day and come up with plausible-sounding out-there theories. As I see it there's more evidence against the movie being all Cobb's dream than there is for. Consider how often we watch characters doing things that Cobb is unaware of -- like how the film sticks to the hierarchical structure of the nested dreams and shows what happens on every level, despite the fact that Cobb at the lower levels is only slightly influenced by events at the higher levels. Which is far more ordered than anything that's happened in my dreams, that much I can say.
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Shake your windows and rattle your walls.
From: Dont Interrupt Me | Posted: 7/26/2010 7:35:27 PM | #004
real dreams… happen in real time…
I've never seen this movie, but: haven't you ever had a dream that seemed to last much longer than a night?
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"If I pick nine, you'd better not be racist against me!"
"No promises,
niney."
I just don't think the speculation is worth very much if you can't back it up with some evidence from the film. Otherwise I can sit here all day and come up with plausible-sounding out-there theories.
It's just for fun...
If only all literary analysts would admit that.
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"If I pick nine, you'd better not be racist against me!"
"No promises, niney."
I've never seen this movie, but: haven't you ever had a dream that seemed to last much longer than a night?
One, maybe you should see this movie before we spoil the crap out of it for you (for example, later in this post). It's really good.
Two, no. You have? I mean, there've apparently been studies that show dreams are experienced at the same rate as regular time. Though of course your perception of time can go as wonky as it might.
Does the movie still work if the characters only think that 50 years have passed when it was more like a few seconds? I think the plot might but the dialogue certainly contradicts this possibility.
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Shake your windows and rattle your walls.
the whole thing is mal's dream. the kids never change.
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motorcycle
From: Dont Interrupt Me | Posted: 7/27/2010 1:38:18 PM | #012
maybe you should see this movie before we spoil the crap out of it for you…
Don't worry; I basically never see movies.
You have?
I think so. I can't think of any good examples, but dreams are quickly forgotten.
I mean, there've apparently been studies that show dreams are experienced at the same rate as regular time.
Sounds interesting. Any citations?
Though of course your perception of time can go as wonky as it might.
How could you distinguish a dream where your perception of time is off from a dream where you experience time moving at an abnormal rate?
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"If I pick nine, you'd better not be racist against me!"
"No promises,
niney."
The kids do change. They are older, and wearing slightly different clothes.
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"...you should try reading my posts being getting all emo." --FoxMetal
The kids do change. They are older, and wearing slightly different clothes.
I don't remember them having changed. Do we need to wait for the DVD for this?
Sounds interesting. Any citations?
Well, here's the first study I found on Google:
http://www.mindmodulations.com/mindmods/dreaming-lucid-dreaming/the-passing-of-time-in-dreams-a-study-using-lucid-d.html
I did find a different site that contained instructions for lucid dreamers on how to extend their dreams to experience days in the dream world per minutes in real time. This was sandwiched between the instructions for shared precognitive dreams and the instructions for leaving your body while dreaming.
http://stason.org/TULARC/mind/lucid-dreaming/2-23-How-can-I-stop-real-time-in-my-Lucid-Dreams.html
The wonders of modern science!
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Shake your windows and rattle your walls.
The kids are played by different actors at the end. The girl has a white undershirt at the end that she didnt before, and the boy is wearing different shoes.
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"...you should try reading my posts being getting all emo." --FoxMetal
What a bizarre study. I guess the moral is: subjective time flow in dreams is correlated with real time, but not the same thing. Which I guess is what I would've expected.
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"If I pick nine, you'd better not be racist against me!"
"No promises, niney."
I'm relatively sure it's all real. Yep.
My only real gripe with the movie is that the extraction team never just conjures up some sort of dragon or a... magic bullet shield to fight off Fischer's mind guards. Ariadne folds Paris onto itself, but the team is pretty restrained for the rest of the movie.
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Ocarinakid
Well, I think the argument for not summoning crazy dragons and world-folding or anything is that the more you mess with the dream--the more violent the subconscious acts against the person messing with the dream.
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"A period"
~~This is what I like to add to the end of almost every sentence.~~
http://www.cracked.com/article_18688_dreams-inception-vs.-reality-5Bchart5D.html
Never thought I'd see a cracked.com article linked on PMS...
Loved the movie btw.
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Well, there is a new accent of n00b language. It's called: Vet LUEser goes Foreign!-MegaSpy22
Those must be the pants of the gods!-Digitalpython
This is interesting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2sD3QvwnjY
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Ocarinakid