I think I figured something out--feedback appreciated.

I've just had a sort of a breakthrough. I recently asked a girl out, she said yes, seemed to enjoy herself on the date, but after the fact told me that though we had a lot in common, she didn't feel a spark for more, and that she wanted to be friends. Which sucked, but that's not the point of this post. I'd been searching for why I didn't seem like a spark-y person. And this line of thought brought me to a realization about myself.

For the longest time, I've been what I consider to be kind. I don't try to readily offend, I give others the benefit of the doubt, and I try to do small nice things for people when I have the opportunity, like if I'm waiting near a door, I'll be a doorman for a few minutes. I'm not sure that there's anything inherently wrong with what I'd been doing, but I think my motivations were wrong. I think I try to please everyone out of a fear of rejection, out of a fear of being disliked or even hated rather than out of a need to "do the right thing" so to say. Now, that's not what I've been telling myself all these years, but when I look at how I act, it seems to make sense.

Consequently, outside of people I know online, which are harder for me to classify, I have just a few close friends, 2, maybe 3, but many friendly acquaintances. This has left me lonely over the years; it seems to be hard to make friends when trying to avoid making any enemies.

I think the reason I couldn't trigger a spark and the reason I don't have many close friends is I'm too bland! I'm like sugar water; sure, it's sweet, but really, who drinks sugar water? They want lemonade, or hot chocolate--something sour or bitter mixed in with the sweetness to create a more interesting blend. Plus I'm pretty sure I remember reading a study where the kinder participants in a game ended up being the most unlikeable... I need to be willing to offend--to stand up for something when there is opposition, be willing to make enemies.

How I go about this is something I haven't figured out yet--after living one way for so long, change will not be easy. I've gained an ability to see both sides of an issue so well, that in many cases I have a hard time choosing a side; I'll need to figure out a way to get over this.
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Hmm, well Spock, it looks like we've got a bit in common, but that's for another time.

But anyway, I'd say start getting competitive ub something you enjoy. Sports, video games, chess, whatever. I'm thinking the competition will help you out hopefully.

Just the first idea to pop into my head.
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Well, there is a new accent of n00b language. It's called: Vet LUEser goes Foreign!-MegaSpy22
Those must be the pants of the gods!-Digitalpython

Excuse the lack of a clear thesis in this post. I've just written up a bunch of disconnected ideas that occurred to me.

It sounds like you may indeed have fallen afoul of the nice-guy stereotype.

While this idea that people see you as too inoffensive may be right, it may be wrong, particularly because it's so difficult to accurately perceive how other people perceive you. I would urge you to ask your close friends and perhaps also your acquaintances if they in fact see you as too inoffensive. If they don't, you might still be right—perhaps your friends are your friends in part because they happen to be the sort of people who are okay with inoffensiveness—but at least you'd have a bit more relevant evidence.

For a completely different perspective on the subject of habitual kindness, see the movie Harvey. Don't be too willing to believe that being less kind is the only way to get what you want. Could you, for example, be more assertive without actually being any more confrontational?

Don't be too willing to assume that having fewer friends than you'd like and being less romantically successful than you'd like have the same cause. By and large, the forces that cause people to fall in love aren't the forces that cause people to like each other. This is obvious when you consider how common it is for people who really can't stand each other to date and even marry, with the inevitable result of a breakup or a miserable coexistence for both parties.

From: PaperSpock | Posted: 1/26/2011 12:17:32 AM | #001

…but I think my motivations were wrong.

Careful: behavior is to be judged not on its motivation but its justification. We can't control why we do what we do, or how we feel about what we do; we can only control what we actually do. And our decisions about what to do should be based on our understanding of the consequences, not our understanding of the causes. Let's put it this way: if I'm right in thinking that by becoming a scientist I can do the most good I can, then becoming a scientist is the Right Thing to Do, whether or not my actual motivation is wanting to feel superior to other people. The important thing is to Do the Right Thing. Maybe you already knew all this, but it seems a point worth emphasizing.

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"Now I will have less distraction." —Euler, upon going blind in one eye

Spock, you are a really nice guy. I've always thought so and I've always appreciated how on PMS you are just consistently great to have around.

Would you say you're bland on the inside or just on the outside? I imagine you're interesting but maybe just shy. You could start by maybe being less shy or more speak-up-ish around your better friends. Kind of feel out how that works and how it goes. It'll naturally carry over to other areas of your life, I think, once you start getting the hang of it.

But don't stop being nice!

it's not about being nice or mean, it's about sexual aggression. don't be too scared of being an animal.
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"I think life is much more simple now that my teenage days." --freepizza

Spock, you are a really nice guy. I've always thought so and I've always appreciated how on PMS you are just consistently great to have around.

Would you say you're bland on the inside or just on the outside? I imagine you're interesting but maybe just shy. You could start by maybe being less shy or more speak-up-ish around your better friends. Kind of feel out how that works and how it goes. It'll naturally carry over to other areas of your life, I think, once you start getting the hang of it.

But don't stop being nice!

No worries about that last part. There was this fundraiser today selling candy bars for a dollar a piece, and I decided to hand the cashier a ten, and then told him to give a candy bar to the next ten people to walk by. The look on his face was priceless!

But on a more serious note, I'll try to do some of what you mentioned, it made good sense to me.

Don't be too willing to believe that being less kind is the only way to get what you want. Could you, for example, be more assertive without actually being any more confrontational?

Yeah. I'm reasonable enough to know that just randomly being a jerk isn't going to help me any. I do think that finding a way to be more assertive would help me.



On a (somewhat) unrelated note, there's a couple of things which should be common sense, but I apparently missed out on when the common sense was being handed out. Having them clarified would perhaps help me on the friendship side of the spectrum:

1. How does one initiate a conversation with a total stranger without creating an uncomfortable situation?

2. Okay, let's say I've got a friendly acquaintance that I see from time to time. How does this progress into a friendship?
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Hey man, I think you're not so far away from the rest of the world as you might feel. I am also a nice guy, and for it I had trouble with finding a girl to be with until college rolled around. There was something that happened between high school and college, though, and I'm no less nice, but I do think I have much better relationships now.

And trust me- there were plenty of girls I really cared for, and hoped they cared for me, only to hear them talk about how I'm such a wonderful guy and some girl would be really lucky to have me, as they go and date another guy. It was disheartening and frustrating (incredibly frustrating!)- I thought: wow, what a pushover I am! I need to stop this nice guy business!

But that's not the case, and I'm not that bland, and neither are you. What college did for me was instill a deep sense of independence and confidence, that I didn't have. Maybe you do have it, but I didn't. It was something I had to fight for- it wasn't given to me. I pushed myself out of my box and on my own and was very lonely for a year probably, but I also learned how to rely on my own two feet. You learn to stand and walk with a positive stride, to maintain eye contact, give firm handshakes (which I always prided myself on anyways but still, if you don't, do so). These things will make you feel better about yourself, and the more you like yourself, the more everyone else does, too!

It's not whether or not you're nice that people like- well it is, actually... people like nice people, not people who lack niceness. The nice guy doesn't always lose- it's just that lack of confidence tends to go hand in hand with niceties. The confident nice guy is the real winner, because not only does he have the confidence that the "bad boy" does, he also has the qualities that make for real, long lasting relationships, and profound impressions on all the ones closes to him.

All that being said, don't worry about it. Worrying about how people perceive you will not help anyone, especially not you. When you worry about what others think, you subtly give off clues to them, and you fill your head with negative emotions. Just live life, breathe deep, exercise, eat right- these things really help me to feel on top of the world. And if you notice your posture is poor, shape it up! That's seriously all you need.

When it comes to "standing up" like you said, only stand up when people's rights are being trampled (which is rare to see)- not when your team is losing and someone makes a joke about it. No one likes a bully. Everyone likes someone who will fight for what's right.

As for starting conversations with strangers... that's pretty difficult. It's almost always awkward, and really is one of those things you just feel out. It's pretty obvious when someone would prefer to stop talking with you, so don't continue on when that happens. And to make an acquaintance a friend? Give them a passive invite to something. You don't want to apply direct pressure to do something with you- because if they don't want to they may find it hard to say no, and you are now hanging out with someone resenting you. Make it a "hey, some of us are going out to dinner/lazer tag/sports event and if you wanted to go with us, I think it'd be a good time, but if you've got plans it's no big deal" Just see how it pans out. You've got a lot of years to live, and no rush- remember the part about taking deep breaths of fresh air!
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